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(MRC SIG)
Working Group B: What principles are important in dealing with complexity?

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  • simon springate
    Participant
      @springates
      Post count: 23
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      Hi all:  Thanks to a client going through a painful, predictable but unanticipated ‘transition’ plus taking a four-week holiday I have been out of the loop.

      Having reviewed the document I am really impressed with how much of the discussion has been embedded.  To me it is new material, something which is often implied but not directly talked about (or taught).  Therefore this paper is very important to get published.

      I think we need to review how it is best assembled:  I suggest
      – What is it (Transition)
      – How do you see one – early, if possible
      – How do you prevent it from becoming an issue – much of the document has great material on this point
      – How do you fix it when it happens (and you didn’t spot it early) – the norm!
      – What not to do!  again, I love the sections of the document that covers this.  Many actions are taken in the hope of ‘any action is better than nothing’ but this points out what a mistake that approach is.

      Of course, I should wade in to help with the edit (:-))

      Talk tomorrow.  Simon

      Robert McMartin
      SIG Chair
        @rmcmartin
        Post count: 41
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        Morning all,

        In reviewing the Transition document (well done Ian), I realised we have missed a common transition which is schedule slippage, or changes in scheduled tasks, or activities.  For example, a scheduler notices that a work package is either larger than initially planned, or there is interdependencies, or interrelationships that had not prior been picked up.  This of course is reflected in the resource plans, or work force planning.

        Robert McMartin
        SIG Chair
          @rmcmartin
          Post count: 41
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          Morning all,

          In reviewing the Transition document (well done Ian), I realised we have missed a common transition which is schedule slippage, or changes in scheduled tasks, or activities.  For example, a scheduler notices that a work package is either larger than initially planned, or there is interdependencies, or interrelationships that had not prior been picked up.  This of course is reflected in the resource plans, or work force planning.

          Ian Mack
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            @ian-mack
            Post count: 118
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            Team – I have amended the paper on Transitions for what I think is the last time. The changes since the last version are in red print. Please note that:

            – Annex A only includes one example, is that acceptable or do we need to add one or more others?

            – In Annex B, I have split the examples into two groups: Common Triggers and Transitions; and Less Common Triggers and Transitions. In hindsight, perhaps we should (1) just leave them all as “common”, and/or (2) move some between the two groupings. Thoughts?

            – Also, I may have missed some names of people who contributed at the meeting in December that I missed – if so, please speak up.

            I hope to see you all in a week or so, though I think Australia just had a time change so I may miss you all completely… – Ian

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            Ian Mack
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              @ian-mack
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              Hi Team – Thanks Andrew, I have modified the comments on Agile in the paper.

              Thanks Davin, will mine and amend the paper one more time. I am also including a section about the potential psychological aspects for the team when unexpected and concerning transitions occur.   Ian

              Davin Shellshear
              SIG Chair
                @davin-shellshear
                Post count: 161
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                Hi Group B

                Attached is the transcription of our last meeting on 23rd March 23.

                Happy reading – as usual, it contains lots of little gems for your interest.

                Cheers

                Davin

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                Andrew Pyke
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                  @mr-andrew-pyke
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                  Ian, nice job.

                  In reference to the Agile comment:  Apologies if I have missed a discussion on that, but I would offer a few comments……

                  I think there would be plenty who would disagree with the statement that “use of agile techniques before delivery of outcomes (rarely effective until the in-service lifecycle phase)” is inappropriate.

                  As it happens, I have just completed several significant reviews of what I would describe as “Agile inside Waterfall” and am assisting a major Government client with this problem, so its topical!

                  In terms of “transitions”, coincidentally I have been looking at 3 separate projects where, actually against all contracts and project control, developers and users have flipped from waterfall to agile.  Typically, this is at the point where the approved iron triangle (cost/schedule/scope) is blown, the product becomes horribly delayed, and desperate uses calling for “just something”, so developers start ignoring the waterfall plan and delivering value as early as possible.  It can be quite political, actually, because if an employers directs the scarce developer talent to get back to waterfall, they just resign.  A bit of Boomer vs Zoomer, as well.  :-)

                  One of the issues is that waterfall is perceived as simply to slow, such that reality gets inside the OODA-loop.  By the time the requirements analysis is done (if that is even possible), the market approached, contracts negotiated, development done, testing done, etc, the requirements are obsolete, interfaces have changed, technology has changed, the system-of-systems has changed, etc.

                  From my own experience, I do agree that Agile tends to work better where there is v1.0 of a product, that already addresses many of the essential compliance requirements best addressed by Waterfall.  Obviously best for software products, although there are many experiments in hardware too, especially systems-of-systems.  However, I have also seen it work well on ab initio developments, so our statement may be prejudicial.

                  So, I think the point about transitioning from one methodology to another it a good one, but maybe we should pull-back from the skepticism about Agile – there will be a variety of experiences on this.

                  Davin Shellshear
                  SIG Chair
                    @davin-shellshear
                    Post count: 161
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                    Hi Andrew,

                    Yes the meeting is running normally

                    ICCPM ADMIN is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

                     

                    Join Zoom Meeting

                    https://us06web.zoom.us/j/89707644924?pwd=cTB6TVd6bXFydjVXajlLOWJyckJ3dz09

                     

                    Meeting ID: 897 0764 4924

                    Passcode: 690949

                    One tap mobile

                    Cheers

                    Davin

                    Andrew Pyke
                    Participant
                      @mr-andrew-pyke
                      Post count: 41
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                      The Zoom isn’t letting me in, today.  Is it everyone?

                      Davin Shellshear
                      SIG Chair
                        @davin-shellshear
                        Post count: 161
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                        Thanks Rob

                        An interesting extract from the Wikipedia article is

                        Complex systems may exhibit critical transitions

                        See attached for those who have a mathematical bent

                        Cheers

                        Davin

                         

                         

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                        Robert McMartin
                        SIG Chair
                          @rmcmartin
                          Post count: 41
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                          Morning everyone,

                          I was doing some research on Project Complexity for an upcoming presentation and found this on Wikipedia.  Some interesting information.

                          Complex system – Wikipedia

                          Ian Mack
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                            @ian-mack
                            Post count: 118
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                            Team – I have once again updated the initial version of our tranisitons paper based on the discussion at the last meeting. That included the introduction of an Annex B which tries to spek to the common triggers and transitions we have identified to date. Note in that Annex that I have not finished my work, as I wanted to get the next draft of the paper out for you all to review (if time allowed) before our meeting next week.

                             

                            As promised, I have red highlighted the changes made in the paper.

                             

                            I hope to see you all soon. Ian

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                            Davin Shellshear
                            SIG Chair
                              @davin-shellshear
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                              Hi Rob, I use Dragon Dictate to talk into the computer. I listen to what is said and then talk it into a docx document. Edit as I go because talk never translates directly into the written word, and then normally do a final edit to clean up the glaring English glitches. Takes about 8 hours to do each meeting.

                              Cheers

                              Davin

                              Robert McMartin
                              SIG Chair
                                @rmcmartin
                                Post count: 41
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                                Davin,

                                 

                                you must use some transcribing software, or you are a faster typist than me.  I am only up to the 35 minute mark.

                                 

                                Rob

                                Ian Mack
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                                  @ian-mack
                                  Post count: 118
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                                  Great to see you back Davin, and thank you.  Ian

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