Working Group B: What principles are important in dealing with complexity?

[Davin Shellshear]

#19029

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Hi Team

Attached is the notes arising from our meeting on 18th January 2024.

It is absolutely packed with good discussion and great ideas. Well worth a read.

Cheers

Davin

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[Andrew Pyke]

#19026

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All, as discussed today, attached is the table put together by Prof Michael Jackson, which I use regularly in planning project strategies.  It took me multiple reads and use, to understand it all, but I find it very helpful.

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[Ian Mack]

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Thanks Davin, I have modified the statement as per your comment in the next version of the document, which I will promulgate after the next meeting. As for typo’s, I am always thankful for all the help I can get!    Ian

[Davin Shellshear]

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Thank you Ian for a most wonderful start on our topic Cross Discipline Considerations.

I have made some very minor edits (spelling, etc) and a comment for consideration (attached)

Looking forward to our first meeting on 18 January 24

Cheers

Davin

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[Ian Mack]

#18922

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Hi Team – First of all, I wish you all great success in 2024, starting with continuing or improving health.

Thanks for the article Davin, and your comment Richard which I totally support. Still, the article was interesting.

And thank you one more time for the transcript of our last meeting in December Davin. As has been my practice, I have attempted to data mine for the significant comments made at out last meeting in 2023 – and then I tried to make some observations. The result is enclosed in the attached file.

I would offer only two points in this general post:

– The General Considerations’ section is large and offers a number of pseudo conclusions & considerations for the Working Group, including questioning whether we have the selected topic right

– There was much discussion about the challenges of conversing with contract managers. As I mentioned during the meeting, ICCPM and IACCM (the latter now re-branded as WorldCC) collaborated on generating a Thought Leadership Report entitled “Contracting for Success in Complex Projects”. To avoid repeating what is already published by ICCPM, I have included just the report’s recommendations in the attached file, but all are encouraged to read the entire report on the ICCPM website. We may wish only to highlight aspects in our own work, and draw attention to the existing report.

For consideration, and I hope to see you all at the next meeting of our Working Group – past members and anyone new with an interest (that meaning getting access to the ZOOM call by contacting ICCPM through the website, I presume).  Ian

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[Richard Barber]

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Thanks for the post Davin – and Happy New year to you and to everyone involved in the MRC SIG.

In the attachment, it’s good to see the focus on taking a risk perspective – although it seems to me that although they tackled the complexity of mega projects they did so without first rethinking the nature of risk (and of effective risk management) in complex environments.  Their references to and use of risk categories are an example – truly complex risks defy categorisation and trying to do so limits our ability to see, understand and manage systemic risks well.

Nonetheless a worthwhile read.  I have noted it as a reference for my Masters Degree students to have a look at.

Again, HNY to everyone.

[Davin Shellshear]

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Hi Group B

Over the new year break, I thought for your interest and amusement, you may find the attached paper to be an interesting read.

Enjoy

Davin Shellshear

• This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Davin Shellshear.

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[Davin Shellshear]

#18771

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Hi Group B

Attached is the transcript from our meeting on 7th December.

Lot of very good content, well worth a look over and check out some of the references.

Enjoy the end of year break, and see you all back on the 3rd Thursday of January.

Warm regards

Davin Shellshear

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[Robert McMartin]

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Missing Transcript from the November meeting

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[Andrew Pyke]

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I could do 7Dec.

[Ian Mack]

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Hi Team – Firstly and as I already said to Sebastian, these things happen. Although confused at the time and unfortunate, we are a working group and can easily regroup.

I am okay with 7 Dec (next week, 6 Dec in Ottawa). If we do adopt the proposed new topic and once we wordsmith it (it is quite a mouthful right now). a few thoughts:

– It strikes me that we may want to first confirm the various other disciplines that we must collaborate with

– We then should tackle one or two at a time, with each of us bringing our ‘horror stories’ of when we felt left down because our collaborators would not deviate from their normal approach to facilitate solutions for complexity

– Finally, we should try to reach out to those we might know in those disciplines to query them on our thoughts (and theirs) on the subject – noting that we are not as schooled in their disciplines as they are, but recognising that they may still resist  our thoughts about deviations – the latter point meaning that we might refer to the first subject we tackled but never generated a group paper about with respect to  the question: “How can governance bodies (including project leaders and stakeholders) and project management practitioners who appear unaware of and/or reluctant to adopt emerging methods tailored for complex project management be influenced to accept the need to identify and then subsequently embrace complexity-appropriate initiatives and tools by creating a supportive organisational ecosystem?” (I did generate my own personal paper though, info)

Of course, we never constrain input when it is offered, so such a step-by-step approach is merely a framework for generation a new set of considerations. (And by the way, it seems that out latest paper is already published!)

For consideration Team – Ian

[Davin Shellshear]

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Hi Group B

Sebastian (Marcomms) advises:

Good morning (evening, for Ian),

I am sending you all my sincerest apologies regarding the meeting this morning. I am investigating what happened with Zoom, as it appears to have been a technical issue with the application.
I had opened up and started the meeting, and initially Rob was the only one in the waiting room. While investigating what was happening, knowing you’d be waiting, Rob was stuck on “connecting to audio”, and I tried to restart the meeting to no avail.

I have called and spoken to Davin this morning, and I assure you I am following up whatever technical issue occurred this morning to ensure that it does not happen again.
If you would like to schedule a meeting perhaps next week in place of it so you can still meet before the end of the year, I would be more than happy to make that happen.

My apologies again,

Sebastian Winter (they/them)

It was certainly a disappointing outcome. Do you want to consider still having meeting in early December – say the 7th. Hopefully not too close to e-o-y celebrations.

If so, I recommend we adopt Ian’s suggestion for a topic, namely:

‘To better enable risk management of complex projects, what other disciplines are essential to enabling the project enterprise’s leadership to achieve project success, and what unique adjustments should such disciplines consider to support project managers in navigating complexity?’

As Ian said, today’s little debacle would be a great example.

I think the topic provides a great area for us to play in, and potentially provide a whole new set of insights for PMs struggling with complex projects.

What do you think – meet again in Dec?, adopt the topic?

Cheers

Davin

[Richard Hughes]

#18643

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Hi Everyone

I joined the Zoom meeting today (5am Perth time) and no one else was there so I wasn’t admitted and so I left after 10 minutes. This is frustrating and annoying as I had to get up at 4:30am to take part. I used the link sent to me in the official email.

Richard

[Andrew Pyke]

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Team, my apologies today.  Duty has called, and I am unable to join.  I’ll watch tye posts.  Andrew

[Davin Shellshear]

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Hi Group B

I like your suggestion Ian – it opens up a wide vista that can be considered, and may allow us to step beyond the standard thinking around complex projects.

Cheers

Davin

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