Working Group B: What principles are important in dealing with complexity?

[Stephen Grey]

#15590

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I agree

All the other points or considerations can be framed in terms of general complexity management principles – adopting multiple viewpoints, deferring locking down anything you can, remaining open to change …

[Lizzy Smith]

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Thank for the summary points #12 is reading like a ‘minimum viable product’ in product design terms. Dave Snowden and others talk about asking what is the next most elegant step.

 

[Davin Shellshear]

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Hi Group B

Attached is the transcript from our meeting on 4th August 2022

Happy reading

Cheers

Davin Shellshear

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[Stephen Grey]

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Michael @michael-rollo

I noticed in the transcript of the working group meeting of 23 June that you wrote a paper on measuring complexity in projects

Is it possible to get a copy please or, if it has already been posted on here can you point me at it?

Thanks

Steve

[Stephen Grey]

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This is the summary I extracted from Ian’s work to illustrate where the WG is heading

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[Ian Mack]

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Thank you Davin, a great paper indeed and it builds on his previous research nicely. I am going through his paper in detail, and while I think all his themes are mentioned, some of them may need a greater focus in the next version of the paper. I am sure that his themes ring true for the members of our WG members as important considerations.   Ian

[Davin Shellshear]

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Hi Group B

Another paper that you might find relevant and interesting

Cheers

Davin Shellshear

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[Ian Mack]

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Thanks Richard. Sadly by the time I read your note the registration to the IRM SIG launch was closed. I guess I (and perhaps other group members) will have to rely on your to inform us – please …

Davin – Thanks for the article. I had not heard before of the “Living Library’ term (my sheltered career I guess), and it is only research based on 10 experienced PMs. Nevertheless and based on my personal confidence bias towards trusted mentorship, a few thoughts came to me:

– We should share it with ICCPM and get Colin’s thoughts that training courses offered by professional associations MAY achieve less value than perhaps thought. I wonder how many PM-related associations would agree …

– I will add the ‘Living Library’ of PM mentors to the para in the paper on how organisational learning can occur

– Perhaps we in the WG might debate offering our email addresses so as to be a nucleus of a “Living Library” of PMs within ICCPM – though without a personal relationship to be the foundation, it becomes very difficult to see uptake without that trust factor already being in place. I saw this throughout my career – it was the broader relationship that typically made mentorship work

– On reflection and in terms of the answer to or first question (awakening leaders to CPM support needs) , it reinforces the option of ‘awakening’ seniors to CPM’s values by leveraging existing trusted mentors they have to get them onboard – IF you can find such mentors

Still hope to be at the meeting later this week, though I think ‘the well is starting to look pretty dry’ to me on this one, beyond the survey of Fellows.

Ian

[Richard Barber]

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Hi everyone,

I’m sorry to be less involved in the ICCPM MRC SIG – its mainly pressure of work but also Covid and other challanges.     Today I was notified of an IRM SIG on pretty much the same topic as we are discussing.  The intial meeting for that IRM SIG is this Thursday at 1pm (BST).

Here is a link:https://the-irm.org/FOL-7YQBV-8719AD466AE854222YRAQ8736DC483E5E425FC/cr.aspx

Despite the time-zone challanges, I’m going to try to attend partially because I am about to rewrite a book chapter on “Risk Leadership” and I’d like to hear what IRM memebrs are saying.

Regards,

Richard

 

[Stephen Grey]

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Thanks Davin

I know Chivonne

She has an open mind and is constantly searching for fresh ideas in this area

[Davin Shellshear]

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Hi Group B

In light of recent comments about putting old heads on young shoulders, I thought the attached paper from AIPM might be of interest.

Cheers

Davin

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[Stephen Grey]

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Hoping to make it to the next meeting – all being well

The survey letter looks good – minimalist and open ended

[Ian Mack]

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Hi all,

Davin – Thanks for drafting the survey letter. I think the letter will do the job. We might make one amendment as follows: ” … consider what you think are the top 3 or 4 principles (more if you wish) that are important …”. I also would ask whether we stick to ‘principles’ rather than ‘considerations’ – or maybe even add that as a separate question to Fellows – but that is a lesser point and worthy of discussion at our next group meeting.

Group B Members – I have reworked the discussion paper as I said I would, along with moving the details in the bullets to ‘endnotes’. And I add for emphasis, I think it is now time for all to give it a critical review and either send me (by paragraph number) concerns and/or proposed amendments, or be prepared to raise them at the next meeting.

I also remind of my earlier note, suggesting that there may be value in capturing all the concerns we have raised in our past discussions which theoretically resulted in capturing the 15 considerations in navigating complex projects (or principles) and 9 common principles with all projects – these of course in the draft paper below (in PDF format). This could serve to test our list and perhaps even be generated as a separate product for practitioners in terms of ‘defined issue’ and ‘principle(s) worth considering’. I propose that we discuss this option as well in the next meeting (or subsequently).  Until next week’s meeting – Ian

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[Davin Shellshear]

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Hi Group B members,

I have spoken to Colin Smith regarding surveying ICCPM Fellows and members on what principles are important when dealing with complexity.

He has expressed strong support and is keen to offer his own thoughts on the topic as well.

I have prepared a draft letter to go out to ICCPM Fellows and members (attached) and ask for your edits and improvements to the letter, or simply your agreement if you think it is OK.

I hope to finalise the letter by (or at) the next meeting, and then forward to Colin for distribution.

Please advise

Cheers

Davin Shellshear

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[Ian Mack]

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Thanks once again Davin for your work to transcribe another very rich discussion. As I read through the transcript, I had one of those moments when lightening strikes with the blinding obvious – which means it is likely obvious to many of you and I am just slow on the pick-up.

It struck me that in all our meetings since we started on the original and subsequent  questions guiding our areas of exploration (2 so far), the discussions have revealed people’s experience with issues or problems when navigating complex project delivery.  And all these offer two opportunities or related pursuits. One would be to capture them and TEST the principles or considerations we have developed (or will develop) to ensure we have offered practitioners potential solutions. And in doing this, capturing all these tests in a related document (or addendum) of ‘Common Challenges With Complex Projects and Potential Solutions’ would perhaps be of benefit going forward – a sort of compendium of generic mini-cases along with methods (or principles or considerations in our paper) that could respond to them to potentially reduce harm to project outcomes.  I hasten to add that such an endeavour is not for the faint of heart or for busy people with full time employment. But it would better capitalise on our extensive discussions over the past year. I offer this additional perspective for consideration at out next working group meeting.

In the meantime, I will update (based on the recent transcript), reformat the paper (removing detail to end notes), and try to get it out around the middle of next week, which will leave our members with a week to review it.   Ian

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